Thinking about photographs, part, like, 3 billion
I got to see some of Bradley’s photographs Thanksgiving evening. I would link to them if they existed on the interwebs, but they don’t. Yet.
It is really hard for me to talk about photographs when I’ve been drinking, and only get to see one image at a time, on a table in the living room.
I need to learn how to see images on someone else’s terms or in a non-ideal setting, because after talking with Bradley, Dara and Tessa last night, I have realized that I let so much shit get in the way of my seeing or feeling a photograph.
There is the size. The paper. The shape. The type of camera. The photographer. The subject matter. The place photographed. The place in which the photographs are shown. The time. The quality. The “quality.” All of these things, whether or not identifiable, become pieces that are important to me when I look at the photograph. Are they the photograph, though? Is this an “ends” and “means” thing?
After everyone had left last night, I wanted to take pictures. So I walked around the apartment with a couple of cameras. I haven’t left a photo crit like that in a while - wanting to photograph after talking to people about photographs.
I’ve been thinking (despite myself) about John’s photographs of cameras and have been echoing the practice. It is enough sometimes to just look at the machine - in use, around your own neck, on a table.
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Hey, just went to Ann’s house this morning to drop off my camera (we were in the neighbourhood-ish with a sick puppy) and had herbal tea in the living room - soy milk and all. She has a Brownstone to die for, with more space than a single woman would know what to do with. Anyway it was a pretty nice chat with her, me and Amanda. More to the point, you should remember that you do leave photo 1 with some enthusiasm about video (or seem to at least) Don’t expect the people in our classes to inspire much out of you other than showing you how your work should not look! We’re like family, you couldn’t choose us! You should really dig it out of Ann and put the pressure on Jim. This Vivian critique will be really good I think.
My Mamiya 7 got some action at Thanksgiving and probably made some of the dullest work this semester. I’ll get them developed this weekend! Give us a bell if you want a drink this weekend.
Justin,
Why do you think your concerned about everything that you mentioned above? Why is all of that important?
I disagree…I think booze always elevates the photo conversation. People seem less guarded about what they say (they aren’t focusing on being witty…their focusing on not falling over), it is a little more disordered but the meat and potatos are still there.
Dara and I had a great time and just wanted to thank you again for the invitation. Tell Tessa her pumpkin pie kicked royal ass…yes royal!
Oh man sweet sweet thanksgiving pie
I had sushi..
Today I went out with my 6×7 and a fuckin tripod and that was different. And 3 other cameras. But I took pictures and thats what matters. I do care about asll what you said because it is interesting, and I don’t see the point for a clear division between anything when I am shooting, today too I took some pictures of my camera even when I was out making Art.
Justin as for feeling Photographs- - I tried to post a comment but it did not work maybe because of a link in it, but What you and Brad (and anyone else reading this) is to go to Amazon and search for the Araki book (not the special edition)entitled “Self Life Death”, and then order it. Spend some time with it, go rent the horribly mediocre Arakimentari, and take lots of pictures of people you care about. And enjoy the cameras. And the process.
See I don’t drink but I don’t even have to have consumed beer to sound drunk when I type.
Ben: you’re right. However, how can I tell if I’m only enthused when other people like my work? I’m getting too wrapped up in expectations, and that’s my problem.
Bradley: I’m concerned about all the things I mentioned and I don’t know why - that’s also why I’m concerned about being concerned. I’m not sure if it’s important or not, but I can’t not categorize, classify, structure and try to organize. Is that a problem or a solution when I’m photographing, when I’m trying to make dinner, or write a paper?
It always depends, of course. And it’s my propensity to contextualize things quickly, albeit unreliably, that can be really helpful when trying to understand something. It can also be really wrong. Is contextualizing everything I see getting in the way of understanding? Is is my urge to understand something that one does not understand?
John: yes! I should shut up for a while.
Justin,
I wasn’t suggesting that is was a problem or a solution. It was just a question. I am firm believer that one can think and feel whatever one wants to, but for me it is important to try to figure out why I think or feel a particular thing. Even if my analysis is dead wrong. I think that something is discovered in the search, even if it isn’t quite what I was looking for. Sometimes I find something out that I couldn’t have imagined.
I agree with your sentiment, but not with the language you’re using; for me, it seems like nothing can be “just a question.” Rather, it is, all-importantly, a Question - kind of like art vs. Art.
But that’s probably a matter of semantics and not particularly useful here.
I disagree with the statement “one can think and feel whatever one wants to.” Actually, I think one has a modicum of control, but certainly not enough to think and feel what one wants. At least not all the time.
(If I could, I wouldn’t ever think about money problems, crime, the catch-22 that makes it seemingly impossible for good people to become politicians; but I do think about those things and they can drive me frustratingly mad.)
However, as we all prove to ourselves time and time again, it is possible to delude one’s self with perceptions of the world and confusedly call them facts or truth - totally forgetting that “something discovered in the search” is generally more true - more (if I may mis-use the word) real than the truth one set out to prove.
I might be wrong but I think you are taking everything I was trying to say maybe too literally. I wasn’t implying that you can control what you think. My comment was meant to convey that everyone is allowed the right to their own opinion (think/feel what you want), but I think it is important that you know why you have that opinion. I don’t think you can control thought.
As for the “just a question” remark. I agree with what you are stating. I was trying to say that it is just a question for you to consider…that I wasn’t trying to provide and answer or to claim that it was a problem. It is something you have to figure out for yourself.
And for the search remark…Like I have stated in the past, I believe that the only truth that is possible for anyone to know is “personal truth”. To refer to what I was saying earlier I think that something about this truth can be learned by trying to discover the motivations behind one’s opinions and beliefs. I don’t believe that it makes anything real and I don’t think that I am trying to prove anything. I accepted that I although there may be a “real” world, that I can never know what that is. It is always, with no exceptions, my version of it. All that I can reasonable discover is the why’s and what’s of this version. I know that almost no one I talk to feels this way and I am fine with that. It is just my opinion.
you should remember that you do leave photo 1 with some enthusiasm about video (or seem to at least)
Ben: you’re right. However, how can I tell if I’m only enthused when other people like my work? I’m getting too wrapped up in expectations, and that’s my problem.
Does this open up the question of why we make art? Did we all draw a perfect aeroplane in art class when we were six, and get praised by our teacher for being so brilliant. Do we feel a little buzz when we make something artistic and then get a good critique. You can’t tell me that you weren’t happy with your video work, as I know you edited them and then presented them. None of us ever put work on the wall without some hope for praise. Therefore you were surely wanting or at least hoping for some decent response. You can’t expect that after that has happened that your interest in continuing video will not be affected by that at all! It would be naive to think that we are all unaffected by these critiques. Although maybe Angie and some others care not to listen? Thats why we are back in school - right?
Bradley is right about the ‘personal truth’. As far as I understand it is a very buddhist way of looking at the world. It teaches you to show sympathy to your enemies and have compassion for others. Often Americans especially forget this and think that they are right and the other ‘truths’ are wrong. that’s why we’re at war all the time. I hop I haven’t simplified that idea!?
Ben,
“if you once start worrying about how readers are going to react, it is a very short step to worrying about how listeners are going to receive your poems, and from there it is only a half step to trying very hard to titillate them. Pretty soon you are just pandering to an audience and your no longer a poet; Just a performer”
-Maxine Kumin
I think it is natural to appreciate praise, everyone needs a little love sometimes. But I also think that you start to tread dangerous waters when you start to seek it via your work. I think that it will almost always lead to very safe and dispassionate art.
Do you really think that the U.S. is at war because the population has a lack of sympathy/empathy? When you said “Americans” were you refering to the government? It has been my experiance that most people tend to believe that they are right about most things regardless of nationality, it is just from a different viewpoint and about different things, but the dedication to their belief is the same.
When you refer to a nation is it an easy deflection to say that is the government, or as we live in a democratic state, do we have to take some responsibility of the government as a reflection of the nations beliefs?
You are probably right that most people believe a general concesus, and that they can’t see outside of the public or media opinion. I don’t think the Brits or Europeans are exempt from that! However having lived in NY for the past 10 years, I have this continual frustration, that maybe stems from the NY attitude of rightousness or perhaps the NY’er opinion of their own importance.
As for Maxine Kumin, do you think that his response is an answer to how most people who draw pretty planes end up as an artist and do you think that as MFA students, we are spending all this time and reflection (and money) to merely be “Just a performer.”
I was arguing that in this point of the game we are trying to learn and develop and that the influence of others and our piers, need not be ignored. To be influence by the people around us can be beneficial. To learn from our piers critique’s can create some of the most interesting work. If we only wanted to ever show work that dealt with gender issues, my own personal struggle with Chinese Lomein or how funny the Chelsea galleries look when they are closed, then we may never grow or learn as artists. Ideas, concepts, endevours, aesthetics and all that, need to be have some critical feedback and we need to recognise thats import -right? Obviously I, or we, don’t make art to make our grade school teacher happy, on the flipside, we don’t make art to make our Grad school teacher happy. But if we ignore both of those criteria for pleasing others, then what are we making art for? Originality? To prove a point? Original Self expression? Or just to jack off in our expensive apartments? Whether we like it or not, want to pay attention or not, or just belive in it or not, peoples opinions have some factor into our art. Maybe if we don;t pay attention we will be better ‘artists’ or maybe more honest and soul searching. But for here and now, were I stand, peoples opinions have some factor into what I think. Now I have typed that, I want to not allow that to happen. But looking back on critiques and conversations with other Pratt people. I definately respect and follow advice.
Okay. so I conclude that Woodford Reserve does not create a substantial argument or solid concrete debate. But that at some point I may have had a good point in the thick of bourbon land.
Ben,
I think feedback is very important in an artist’s growth, it may help you see things that are obvious to others but that you haven’t revealed to yourself yet. I never said that praise itself is a bad thing, I think that is it the seeking of praise that leads to watered down art. To me praise for an artist can function like a drug to an addict if you are not careful. You can end up making work that you “know” most people will like, so you can get your hit. There is a good chance that whatever it is that an artist needs to pour out of his soul isn’t going to be popular. In fact, I think that when the art is its’ most poignant the audience tends to have a knee-jerk reaction away from it.
As for the reasons one makes art, that is specific to the individual. For me, my work is a conversation that I am having with myself (or my personified sub-conscious). It isn’t necessary for anyone else to like it, find it interesting, or even hate it. At the end of the day I make the work for myself, I am the one who has to live with it…if more people want to join in on the conversation that is great but I can’t control that and I will not attempt to. I know that this isn’t how most people approach art and I tend to have a lot of people try to beat me up a little bit because of it. But this is how I feel and I refuse to bullshit myself into thinking I am making art for a reason that is “higher” than this. I make art because I am trying to figure something out. I don’t know what that something is but if I stop trying I will go crazy.
I was re-reading you post before I submit mine and I forgot to say something and I am too lazy to work it into the above post, so I will do it here.
“do you think that as MFA students, we are spending all this time and reflection (and money) to merely be “Just a performer.”
I think that a lot of artists in grad school are doing this. They are just going through the motions and hoping to get some gallery shows and maybe get a teaching job. There is a lack of dedication to the work itself though, which is fine, but I think they should just be honest with themselves. For me the point of grad school is to help me improve my work. Before anyone jumps all over me for using the word “improve” let me explain what I mean. I think grad school thus far is helping me hon in on where my work is pushing me, where maybe I should push back. What is it that I feel compelled to express….what keeps me up at night….what am I afraid to show myself. If I get closer to any of these, than I will be satisfied with the grad-school experience. Teaching and galleries would be nice but are not the goal. Sorry about this freakishly long post. I have crit tonight and I think I am getting rid of some nervous energy.